Callum's Study Log

First Log Entry

I have decided that I should be writing about my study progress. Hopefully it should help me enjoy it more and keep on track. I’ve been trying to learn Chinese for a few years but progress has been slow. Here it goes, I guess! Here’s my first study log entry.

I have been using HanziHero since the start of this year. It’s been by far the most efficient study resource I’ve found. Although I’ve been delayed by some health issues this year, it’s allowed me to actually make progress rather than just starting and stopping, climbing up and sliding back down etc.

Idealised Learning Methods?

I often wonder if part of the problem has been trying to find a method of learning which is too perfect. I, like a lot of people I suppose, after only a bit of research into language learning found the idea of comprehensible input fascination. Along with this goes the idea that traditional learning methods don’t work (probably not helped by poor language teaching in schools). But I do wonder if at the start of language learning these ideas can be dangerous. Maybe comprehensible input is theoretically the best way to learn a language. But maybe it is very idealised?

What do I mean by that? Well, everyone seems to run into an obvious problem when they try to use comprehensible input to start learning a language: no input is comprehensible. In order to get comprehensible input you would need someone talking to you in the way a parent talks to a child, repeatedly pointing at things and slowly pronouncing the word for it.

Maybe you can get a friend to do this? How often could this be done? Could you find a teacher who was willing to teach this way? And how expensive would that be?

Practical Problems

It seems like the practical problems of doing this are enough to stop you in your tracks immediately. Perhaps a similar problem occurs when we disregard traditional teaching resources like HSK. A very common sentiment on Reddit, for example, is that HSK isn’t very useful. Language learning, they rightly point out, is about listening, reading, speaking and writing the language. It’s not about test taking.

But again, practical problems emerge if you disregard these resources. How are you going to structure your study? How will you organise things? The sheer task of organising and generating a whole new study system from the ground up has the potential to soak up all your time, leaving very little left for actual study. Is this simply a case of reinventing the wheel?

Language Learning Fantasy vs Reality

This is why I so appreciate that HanziHero is structured around the HSK syllabus. Now, if I want to enhance my listening skills to match with the characters I’ve memorised, I can very quickly find good HSK 1 material which is abundant on the internet because it’s a standardised syllabus.

I think we must take into account the practical problems of a study method, even if the method is theoretically the best. Trying to fit language learning into a busy life of work, social life and other pursuits is already hard enough. If we ignore the practical problems (by chasing a theoretically perfect learning method) we risk getting caught in a fantasy of language learning rather than actually learning the language.

Maybe this is what has kept me stuck.

What Do You Think?

I’m not sure if I’ve expressed this very well. But I’m curious if anyone else has thoughts about this? Or if anyone else can relate? Or if anyone has any counterpoints? I’d be very interested to hear your thoughts. :slight_smile:

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I don’t think it’s maybe idealised, I think it 100% is idealised in communities like Reddit. While there is a lot of love for pure CI, there is a lot of evidence that it’s not the only one true perfect method it’s made out to be (e.g. watch PsychoLingo’s video The problem with CI + some of his other videos for more research based opinions).

The thing that I think gets misinterpreted is that CI is legitimately useful. It’s awesome, and getting a lot of it is incredibly valuable. But much likes diets or exercise, the grain of truth gets taken too far. Kale is a healthy super food? Oh sweet kale only raw diet anyone? Same thing with CI … yeah you should get a lot of CI, but that doesn’t mean “STOP ALL GRAMMAR AND NEVER LOOK AT A TEXTBOOK OR YOU’LL INSTANTLY BE RUINED” like the /r/AGL/ crowd like to say. Much like food - balance seems to be best overall.

I also kinda think pure CI is tailored to people with social anxiety - it’s the “Oh you want to learn a language but are afraid of talking to people? Have I got a method for you!” … I can see people being drawn to it and why it might be popular with certain sections of the internet.

Having said all that - as you point out the mediocre method you stick to is better than the perfect method you quit using. So if going CI only means you keep at it and get much further because you don’t quit it can be “best” in that sense. Power too you if you choose that. I have zero hate for CI only. But I do think it’s wroth acknowledging that it’s just one valid choice out of many. Instead of being the ONLY and the absolute BEST choice.

Currently I put about 60-70% of my time into CI (mostly things like LazyChinese etc). I love it, CI is great. But I also talk to a tutor weekly, use the Chinese Grammar Wiki, use HH to memorise characters and practise reading with DuChinese (and when not being lazy writing posts on LangCorrect). I have zero interest in CI only, but also couldn’t imagine no CI at all.

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When it comes to the (public) opinion that languages are about reading, writing, listening, and speaking, I absolutely think the HSK covers all of that. I just took the HSK4 on Sunday, and the first section of the test is literally all about listening. The second section is about reading and grammar, and the third section is about writing (pencil to paper!). The HSKK is technically a separate speaking test, but you’re required to take it if you’re taking HSK 3, 4, 5, 6 lol. So, there’s the speaking aspect for you!

Very often, you’ll hear language gurus say “what you’re learning in the textbooks isn’t how people speak in real life”, and they basically go on to say, “ditch the books”. However, I think the aspect that’s ignored is that, we need to have a good foundation in the “traditional” “textbook” aspects of the language so that we can then branch off into more colloquial speech. Even in the US, we still have to learn grammar and vocabulary that we don’t necessarily use in everyday, casual speech, but it’s because we learn those things, that we can further understand the nuances of when, how, and why someone is speaking a certain way and how we choose to communicate.

And, like @kaysik said, CI is a great tool to help you move forward with your skill building. If you’re dedicated to only CI, then surely, absolutely, you’ll most likely get pretty good at listening and understanding. And also, the point of “it’s being sold like diets” is too true lol. Lots of language gurus will say “this one thing was my breakthrough!” but won’t mention that they were concurrently leveraging 3-10 other sources of learning.

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I just finished watching the video from PsychoLingo! Loved it.

Yeah I’ve been finding CI so much more helpful since working through the HSK syllabus. Because it’s just so much easier to find material and I can really feel it working. When the language is about 95% comprehensible as it theoretically should be, I can feel that I’m not translating into English in my head but actually just hearing it in Mandarin which is a really nice feeling.

Yeah I guess “Comprehensible Input Made Me Fluent (After Beginning With A Few Hundred Hours of Textbook Study)” is a less catchy, click-batey title hahaha

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